Transcript:

Introduction to EB & Co. Mediation

Hello I’m Emma Bradford and welcome to the Ebb and Co Mediation podcast along with my colleague Charlotte Chambers. We’ll be sharing honest, practical conversations about separation, divorce and co-parenting. We believe it’s possible to separate well with clarity, respect and care. And we’re here to guide you through how Ebb and accredited family mediators and Emma and Charlotte are co-founders of Ebb and Co mediation. With warmth, clarity and over two decades of combined experience, we support families through separation with empathy and professionalism. On this podcast, we’re going to share some practical guidance, some insights and expert advice on everything from finances and co-parenting to communication and emotional wellbeing. Our aim is simple: we want to show that separation doesn’t have to mean conflict.

Traditional Mediation vs. The Digital Shift

Welcome to episode four of our podcast. Yeah. Today we are going to talk to you about the different types of mediation that we provide or that you can choose to do. First of all, probably the one that most people are probably more aware of is that they can attend a mediation session in person, in an office meeting room somewhere. Yeah. And probably traditionally that was their own pretty much. Well, certainly before Covid. Yeah, the dreaded Covid. But yeah, that was the traditional way to do it, to be in a room all together, sit down and have the conversation. The conversation in an office space, essentially. Not your home, obviously, or Amazon or ours. Yeah, a neutral space. But that was yeah, that was the model and and had been for many, many years. And obviously everybody’s lives changed. And I remember lockdown thinking, okay, how can you mediate on a digital? I really didn’t think we could. I really didn’t think that was going to be possible. There were two reasons for that. It might be worth just touching on. That is one not just technically can we? Because everybody was learning the dreaded zoom, but also in terms of mediation, keeping the safe space when people are online. So how do you guarantee or ensure that you’re not going to be interrupted by somebody else coming into the room? How does the other person feel? Where are you geographically? You know, if somebody is in an office, we’ve had people in vans. We’ve had you have people in all sorts of spaces, which is the advantage of being online. You can geographically be anywhere. Yes. But from just going back half a step to what? Keeping a safe space and a confidential space and a good environment in a wider sense for people to have those conversations at the beginning of Covid, That was the other thing you were thinking about is a the tech and B how can we manage it? Yeah, from my perspective it was can we actually hold a room? Yes. And two people who’ve got things that they need to discuss and how effective, how effective can a mediator be? Yes. With these two people who got this work to do and the potential conflict in those discussions, how do we facilitate that process?

The Pros and Cons of Online Mediation

And I really was skeptical right at the beginning. I knew that we could do the MIAMs, you know, the one on one that was never going to be a problem. That was, yeah, absolutely. I actually remember the first zoom oh, really? The case that I did, and it was really good and it was successful. And it really did surprise me. And I’m thankful for that because that obviously then proved to me that, yes, we can do this. Yeah. You’re saying that I can run my first one online and that was a disaster. So partly those are issues that wouldn’t happen now. Those Covid specific terms of the tech weren’t great. And where I was geographically, the signal wasn’t great. Oh right. The Wi-Fi situation. And so that there were a lot of things to think about for the clients going into mediation, uh, that you just hadn’t you don’t think of when they’re in the room with you. They’re all about the pluses and minuses. If I get off of one type of mediation versus another. , and in one of my initial disastrous sessions one year, people’s signal used to drop off. And I do remember. Yeah, people freeze and the clients didn’t know that. No, I’ve no idea how I’m supposed to do that. To be fair, they’re still saying that. Yes. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. No, I’m not very good at this. No no no. And if somebody says they’re not very good at it or they’re not comfortable with it, they don’t in any way feel comfortable with it. Whatever the reason is for that, then they don’t need to. It’s not the right format of meeting for them. It’s , it’s uh, yeah. So there are lots of different aspects to being online that, well, nobody really considered before Covid. Covid forces like it did for everybody in lots of different areas of business, but those are the ones that spring to mind. It was a safe space. And technically not letting the meeting freeze and crash. Yeah. So thinking about it, people can choose if they want to. There’s you know, I and we ask, don’t we ask. Absolutely. How would you like your mediation to be held? And there are no pros and cons. There’s not a difference in price. , but there are pros and cons. Actually, there is no one way that is better than the other. Absolutely. But one thing I’ve just written down. You can’t do both. So I’ve done it once, where one person wanted to be in person and the other person wanted to be on zoom due to geographical issues. And I’d never done that before. And that wasn’t that long ago, actually. And it didn’t work. No, it really didn’t work because the person who was on screen didn’t feel as heard as possibly the best way to put it. And potentially he was. I actually think he was. But I think that this comes down to body language gestures in a room that you won’t see on a screen that perhaps made him feel detached from what was happening. Yeah, and it broke down. Yeah, that never went any further. So I think we said we would never do that. No, no, absolutely.

Geography and the Comfort of Home

I think that, like you said, there are pros and cons to both and it’s entirely down to the individual or to the pet to the two people involved as to what suits them. And I think in my experience and was forced in Covid, now the tech is stable. We’re all pretty much used to that. I think geographically it’s really useful. So we’ve had clients overseas or just at different ends of the country, but also actually for people who maybe have a shift pattern. And so to come to, if they finish at an awkward time of day outside office hours to then drive and come and meet, it’s impossible. Whereas actually to take an hour out in the middle of the day, go to a space and meet online, that is much more doable. So I think there is a time and a place for online and it suits a lot of people. Also, people have said when they told us that they they’ve already quite stressed, stressed about attending a mediation to talk about the stuff that they’ve got to talk about and be in a room with the other person. The fact that they’re in their safe space, they’re in their home, you know, they may have a glass of wine, you know, slightly off camera or something, but people are doing what they need to do. And the thought of having to come to an office and be in that small room with that other person is challenging. So but then in the same week, well, let go. I was going to say it’s the distance. The distance is what you get online. It gives you that separation that we’re talking about from possibly your own feelings and certainly your own feelings about your ex. Whereas physically in the room that’s much harder to escape. We can all know where the temperature in the room goes up and down. Yeah. literally physically feel it in your body. Whereas when you’re on screen, you can sense that that is going on, but your physical reaction to that will be different because there’s that, the protection of the screen. And , I think that’s one factor. Like you say, if people feel that there’s any sense of. Yeah. Well just uncertainty or they just want the security of being in their own space, that distance of the screen gives you that.

The Power of Body Language and Holding the Room

, so if you were asked what is the most successful way of mediating, we haven’t actually calculated that we’d have to go back to our cases to see. Yeah. How many cases you’ve done personally, having done what’s online now, I still don’t even know, actually, of all the cases that I’ve ever done in my career, how many online and how many are in person. My preference is personal. Preference is in person. Still are because. Yeah, well, just lots of reasons. Lots of reasons. People ask, what do you think? What do you what’s the pros and cons? I’ll say from a media point of view, I can hold the room there in-person mediation. So much easier just through hand gestures. I can, you know, stand up from where I’m sitting, go to the board and it breaks that, you know, that gridlock or something like that. Even moving papers across the table, uh, tone of voice even, which. Yes. Okay, the tech works, but you don’t get the infection. It’s the loss of body language from a screen because they’re screen is essentially head and shoulders and how somebody is sitting in a chair, how they come into the room, the energy that they bring in terms of even if they were late or they’ve had a stressful time upset as well, because people do get upset. And although I don’t necessarily go to them, I quite often will use my hands. Yes, and say, I know this is really difficult for you. Yes, because that’s quite a han. Yes, a hand gesture. There’s a calm. You can still say that. You can say that on screen. So I’m really sorry because it is upsetting you. But I don’t think it’s as powerful. Mhm. The opposite of that is sometimes when we’re sitting in a room, quite often we find ourselves looking at the person who’s talking and we’re looking from to and fro. Mhm. And while we’re looking at somebody who’s talking, we might not necessarily be aware of what the other person’s doing and facial expressions and everything while we’re looking at the person who’s talking. Whereas on a, on a screen you’re seeing both their faces all of the time. So there are no dirty looks. Grins. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. That sort of thing. So that’s the benefit of a. Yes. It’s more concentrated in that way. Yes. You are fully focused on the three spaces. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Which again lends itself. So some people would find that very direct eye contact that you get through cameras much more challenging and comfortable. Yeah. That and the freedom to move your eyes around the room and to shift in your chair when you’re in a space together. Like we said, there’s no right or wrong to this. It’s really judging.

Logistics and Locations

And it’s a three way discussion as well between us as mediators, the clients themselves. And then like I said, the logistics of it. So if you have got a job in the north of Scotland, we’re down in the south east. Yeah. There’s not really much of a discussion. You’re, you know, we’d be very happy to work with you as clients. The joy of the tech is that it’s stable now. Everybody is completely used to it. It’s very convenient. It’s cost effective. You’re not having to drive from wherever to wherever. There’ll be something taking less time out of your day. So there are lots and lots of pros to it. Yeah. And that was something to say about our in person. Obviously, we’ve got our own office. There’s a meeting room here in Saffron Walden, but we do offer in-person at other locations as well. So we have a number of locations in Essex that we’re happy to go to and do in-person somewhere else. Yes, yes. So again, that allows people not everybody to have a car or public transport isn’t necessarily the greatest here. But if you go to somewhere like Chelmsford, which has a train station, then, you know, we can happily, happily go to those places. And in those places we tend to use third party office space. Yes. So we would do that.

Shuttle Mediation: When Separate Rooms are Necessary

So yeah, it’s , but it is a three way decision that I think a lot of people don’t think about until we actually until they come to mediation, they’re so naturally focused on what’s going to happen. What’s the conversation going to be like, how if, how it’s going to take place, what the format of the actual attack is like? It’s not something that we thought about. You’d think so. , probably this leads us on to the other sort of mediation that we do, which we know as mediation. So shuttle means that both parties are in person, but they will be in separate rooms. And as a mediator, we shuttle between the two rooms. Yes. And sometimes that’s appropriate. Yes. I think if you probably spoke to one hundred mediators, ninety five of them would say, I really don’t like doing shuttle. Do you think it’s as hard as that? Yeah, I, I do. I mean, don’t get me wrong, if you, if you’ve got two people with high conflict and everything. It’s a way of. It’s a way of getting through this. Yes, but I think because we don’t we’re not. Our job isn’t just about helping them communicate to make decisions about the future. It’s also ideally helping them re-write what their roles are now as, yes, separated parents. And if you’re only going to be able to do that if you can’t actually be in a room with somebody, or you have to go through somebody else to say what you want to say to the other parent, it hardly doesn’t provide a foundation for the future. Yes. It’s a more, I guess you would say, a fact based kind of discussion. It’s a negotiation rather than a potential excuse. Shift your relationship from one thing to another.

Mediation with Protective Measures

Yeah, it is for mediators. The other thing that people are. We, as are required to be in art, are very cautious around which cases are suitable for shuffle. So the enormous big wave flag is always, if there’s any history of domestic abuse or any kind of behavior , that would prevent a case from happening. If so, I’ve said that almost the wrong way. But I mean, that’s always the red flag. And that always used to be the reason that people would go into the shuttle was that there was a high conflict, or there’s some kind of history there. The clients, the couple are saying, we definitely want to get to the end point. We definitely know we need to talk about this thing, and we just want to do that in the most convenient way and can. Shuttle might be the way to help them do that. Yeah, they still want to avoid the court process. They still, but they can’t stand being in the same space together. And that’s fine. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes it’s the only way. Yes, sometimes that is the only option. I mean, we have people who’ve got bail conditions. Yes. Whereas the only way that they can mediate will be that they’re not actually within. I was going to say we’ve had non-molestation orders. It’s perhaps something that we haven’t touched upon, but, , just briefly, Non-molestation orders can come in two ways, either from the police. If there’s been an arrest or the police have decided that one needs to be posted. Or you can take one on yourself through the solicitors, through a solicitor. But they’re normally we would or I have worked with clients who have non-molestation orders in place when it’s relating to the children’s matters. So there is a child or children. The parents still need to talk in inverted commas about the children. Mhm. , they might not have a court date for months and months or they might not be anything in process. But there is this Non-molestation order in place. That’s when the shuttle can come into its own. Yeah. We would make arrangements so that the parties don’t see each other. So there’s no breaching of the order in terms of staggered, staggered entrances, staggered entry, uh, different times as well as different locations. But it has it can, shuttle can help resolve be the right route for those parents to have conversations without breaching their order.

Solicitor-Inclusive Mediation

Yeah. And then I suppose the final bit on the shuttle is that sometimes, if necessary, solicitors can be included in that process. Yes. So this is when you have a solicitor or you’re thinking about getting a solicitor, but you want to do shuttle mediation, but you want to be supported by your legal representative in that shuttle process. Yes. Now I won’t go into the ins and outs of how that works because it’s quite specific to everybody’s case, but it is a possibility. Yes. So we’re seeing more and more where solicitors want to work with us. Yes. So that we can together support people to get to the decisions they need to make. Absolutely. And I would also say it’s the clients feel and want some legal knowledge and support advice essentially. And like I said, go into the ins and outs. It’s down to each individual case and situation. But for sure we have had clients in shuttle, so they’re in separate rooms with their solicitor in the room with them. And that model of the mediator moving from one room to the other, backwards and forwards in an ordered way. Yes. Facilitates the negotiation. It facilitates clients getting to the point that they’ve said they want to get to. We need to sort this out. I’ve got some support here. Yeah, I can use this way of doing it. So if you want to know more about that, get in touch. Get in touch.

Timing Considerations and Conclusion

Because we love doing those. Because you get it all done in the day. Craft. Yes. Yeah. You can shop with me. I’d say the shop could be longer. Yes. So normally our ordinary mediation, whether that’s online or in person is an hour and a half. And that’s enough I think for everybody. But when you’re having a shuttle I always normally allow one to two hours. Sometimes you depend. Again it’s flexible. It’s not fixed for three hours. It can be handy because you need to allow time to talk to the one first client who arrives. Talk to them. There’s a summary here. Yeah okay. You spent half your time with one and half your time with the other. So for them, it only feels like you’ve been with them for three quarters of an hour. Yeah, because you have only been there for three quarters and it’s like. So yeah. You’re right. Yeah. It just takes longer if you have a bit of a patient when you’re in the room on your own. Yeah. We’ve got some fidget spinners that can give you some interesting material to do. That’s true. I didn’t really mean that. We give you fidget spinners. Just being silly.
Anyway, thank you for listening. We’re hoping to get another episode out in several weeks. Yeah, absolutely. Totally sure what we’re going to be talking about then. Hopefully it’s been helpful. Thank you for listening to the Ebb and Co Mediation podcast. We hope to inform, support and occasionally challenge your thinking when it comes to separation and divorce. We’ll also be joined by guests along the way, bringing fresh insights and perspectives to the conversation. Whether you’re going through a separation, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about how mediation works, we’re really glad you’re here.